Nasir and Matt discuss the commercials featuring Ronald McDonalds approving of Taco Bell’s breakfast. They also attack the independent contractor misclassification issue from the employee perspective in the question of the day.

Full Podcast Transcript

NASIR: All right, Episode 27 and that’s 2.7 percent of a thousand episodes.

MATT: Yeah, for people listening a couple of episodes ago, I’m glad we got this straight.

NASIR: Welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business.
This is Nasir Pasha.

MATT: And this is Matt Staub.

NASIR: And we are starting off the day with a nice little Taco Bell and McDonald’s story.

MATT: Yeah. So, hopefully, you’re having breakfast right now because, even though this is involving Taco Bell and McDonald’s, of course – this is a breakfast story now.
Some of you may have already seen the commercial. I know I’ve seen it a couple of times. Basically, I’ll back up a little.
Everyone knew McDonald’s has breakfast. It’s well-known that it ends at 10:30 because people make jokes about it all the time. So, Taco Bell saw this and said, “Hey! Why don’t we get into this market? We’re Mexican fast food. It only makes sense for us to get into breakfast.” So, they’re running these commercials and I’ll give them credit – these commercials are pretty good. It’s pretty funny. They have all these people that they found around the country named Ronald McDonald to eat the breakfast food that they have and comment on how much they like it. Now, I guess they did pay these people to be in the commercial but they claim all the responses are real – which I find hard to believe because, if you look at some of items that Taco Bell’s breakfast are, they don’t even look appetizing in the pictures so I can’t imagine what it really looks like in real life.

NASIR: I have not tasted it myself though Taco Bell is probably the only fast food restaurant that I tend to eat once in a while – maybe once every couple of months or so – but I thought the commercial was hilarious. It kind of caught me off-guard because I didn’t even know it was a Taco Bell commercial until later.

MATT: It is pretty interesting. A waffle taco? An A.M. Crunchwrap? An A.M. Grilled Taco Breakfast Burrito? That’s pretty standard. Cinnamon Delights?
The main thing in this is, when people watch, they might think, “Is Taco Bell allowed to do this?” because they’re basically taking the name Ronald McDonald which is associated exactly with McDonald’s – the big red-haired clown or whatever he is. They’re using that name – not his likeness but the name – to try this Taco Bell food and approve of it.

NASIR: Yeah. So, we’ve talked about in the past how character names and likenesses of a mascot or a logo or what-have-you or a particular company is protected by trademark and copyright law. But Taco Bell was smart, of course. They deliberately chose to advertise its product featuring real men named Ronald McDonald and also put it in disclaimer – I don’t know if you caught it at the end and I even rewound it on my DVR just to read it again – it said something like, “These Ronald McDonalds are not affiliated with McDonald’s Corporation and were individually selected as paid endorsers of Taco Bell, et cetera.” And so, we’ve talked about fair use, right? But, when an advertiser uses a competitor’s trademarks within their commercial, for example, it usually falls in the nominative fair use doctrine. However, there’s a few factors. The courts review whether the company had a need to use a trademark in order to identify the competing product, whether they went beyond the use necessary in order to make that identification. Classically, it reminds me of I think it was either Verizon or AT&T – I think it was Verizon that would take AT&T’s coverage map next to theirs and use their AT&T logo. The question is, well, how can they use their logo and the brand, well, to identify the differentiation. It’s not like Taco Bell had these guys dressed up in a clown uniform either. It was just them in regular clothing, right?

MATT: Yeah, and that’s the next point I was going to make. What if they went to the next level and had people who were dressed up as Ronald McDonald the clown? Is it a clown? It’s a clown, isn’t it?

NASIR: It’s definitely a clown but I think it’s funny that you’re asking because it’s not as obvious anymore because clowns are not as part of our culture as it used to be, I think.

MATT: Yeah, that’s true.

NASIR: He is a clown, though.

MATT: Yeah, but it would be a little bit different if they did that – if they had people dressed up as Ronald McDonald eating this. I feel like commercials have done something similar to that in the past. I just can’t remember exactly what it is. Oh, no, now I’m thinking of what it is. They’ll have competitors of a store go to another store and pretend like that’s happening. This isn’t to that level – if that made sense to anyone.

NASIR: I understand the concept of this trademark law. The main thing is to protect it so that there’s not confusion in the marketplaces to whether there’s an affiliation or some kind of endorsement. In other words, you can make fun of the competitors all you want and use their marks to do so. That’s not a blanket statement there. There are exceptions to that. But, generally, that’s the rule. But, if there’s no misunderstanding as to whether or not – for example, McDonald’s is affiliated with Taco Bell or McDonald’s is endorsing Taco Bell or if somehow Taco Bell is using McDonald’s trademarks in order to advertise their product in a way that doesn’t confuse the marketplace, then it’s fine.

MATT: Did you see McDonald’s response to this? It looks like it’s through Facebook. They had a Ronald McDonald kind of crouching down, petting a Chihuahua, saying, “Imitation is a serious form of flattery.” You know how Taco Bell has a Chihuahua?

NASIR: Well, that’s about as best comeback you can make. It’s not an easy comeback but I think that works. I’m looking at it now, yeah.

MATT: To me, and you’ll see this pretty frequently, actually – to me, when two competitors get in it back and forth and try to one up each other, I think everybody wins.

NASIR: Oh, yeah.

MATT: Other than maybe the companies. I remember somewhat recently there was a car company that put up a huge billboard and they had to put up a new car and said, “So and so, you’re move!” and then the company that they referenced put up another billboard behind it, saying, “Checkmate!” and it had a much better car and cheaper prices. It was really, really good. They were literally right behind each other. Pretty much everybody wins. Everyone that’s a consumer wins when companies do this. It’s just fun.

NASIR: Yeah. I don’t get Facebook pages sometimes. All these people are commenting on these posts about pictures of food and McDonald’s and stuff but that’s a different story, I think.

MATT: Yeah.

NASIR: 10,000 likes? I mean, geez. A picture of some chicken nuggets?

MATT: Is that what it is? I haven’t even checked that out. I don’t frequent fast food Facebook pages but, yeah, there’s nothing really to get out of that. I don’t know why people would do it. Interesting.

NASIR: I don’t know. Even we have a Facebook page. I personally still don’t get it but…

MATT: Well, we had some fun. So, let’s get into the question of the day where we probably won’t have fun because I know you hate independent contractor questions.

NASIR: You’re right; I do hate it. it’s just that we have to deal with it in our day-to-day legal lives everyday so maybe that’s just the problem with it.

MATT: Yeah, here we go, and this actually comes from not the business but the worker.
“I’m pretty sure I am an employee but my office is saying that I’m an independent contractor. Should I be worried about this?”
This comes from someone in Long Beach, California.

NASIR: I don’t think he or she should be worried. I think the business or the employer should be worried, especially if this employee is correct.

MATT: Yeah, I think this definitely falls more on the business more than the individual, but I’ll first answer the person’s question. I guess the thing to be worried about the most is probably the tax issue because you’re self-employed if you’re an independent contractor. You don’t realize that (1) you’re not having any money taken out of your check so that’s an issue and (2) your tax, in addition to the tax that you have to pay, you have to pay self-employment tax. It’s really kind of two things that you really need to look at that a lot of independent contractors don’t necessarily understand or even know about.
Answering their question, that’d probably be the thing that I’d be worried about the most.

NASIR: Actually, that’s a great point because, from the employee’s perspective, that’s an issue and I think we’ve dealt with that many times. You deal with tax issues more than I but people are always surprised – even with businesses, right? Because, with a small business, you may not be paying yourself a W2 through your entity and you may not be withholding enough taxes or making quarterly estimate payments to get all of this in a pretty big bill at the beginning of the next year.

MATT: From their perspective, I guess that’s what you’d be worried about. I don’t know.

NASIR: But what do you do though? As an employee, let’s say that you know that you’re misclassified, if I was advising them, I’d probably just say, “You know what, just keep quiet for now.” It’s kind of a bad way to say because, yeah, understand the tax consequences of this but, really, you’re not being hurt by it. If there is an issue, if your employee mistreats you for whatever reason, then you have a claim against them which sucks for the employer but this kind of shows you, from an employer’s perspective, that if this employee talks to an attorney, they’re going to tell them, “Well, you have nothing to gain by telling them now that you’ve been misclassified because you can always do that later.” Literally, the law allows them to do that. They have no obligation to have them tell you that they’ve been misclassified.

MATT: Yeah, and it sounds like this person doesn’t want to, I mean, if they really wanted to, they could just leave, I suppose. But it sounds like they wouldn’t want to do that. I’m just trying to think if there’s any liability issues that it would differ.

NASIR: That’s a good point. If, in fact, they actually are an independent contractor, they could be more liable for some of the things that they do and they’re not going to have the benefits. If they get hurt, for example, then there won’t be another worker’s compensation claim. But that’s assuming that you are actually an independent contractor.

MATT: Yeah. Also, you know, you’re not afforded the same sort of labor law protections.

NASIR: Overtime and breaks, lunch.

MATT: I don’t know if that really makes a difference in terms of the question because, if they’re an independent contractor, they’re an independent contractor. I guess, if they think they’re misclassified, then it’s an issue. But, if they’re going to be considered an independent contractor, even if they don’t think they are, then it’s not going to make a huge difference.

NASIR: Yeah, I find that employees, a lot of times, if they are classified as IC, they would prefer that – mainly because they get a better paycheck – bigger paycheck.

MATT: Yeah, and then they owe tons of money come April 15th and they don’t understand why.

NASIR: No, they usually put it in a nice savings bond for the year so that it gains some interest and basically they’re borrowing against the IRS and then they responsibly take that out at the end of the year to pay their tax bill.

MATT: For independent contractors that are listening, you know, you are required to make estimated payments if you owe money. So, you can technically get hit with penalties. The IRS can hit you with penalties for that and that’s usually what does happen. I think you get a year kind of grace – you know, one free chance. And then, if you do it two consecutive years, that’s where they start hitting you with penalties.

NASIR: So, lots to worry about for you; more to worry about for your employer.

MATT: Exactly.

NASIR: Okay. Well, that’s our last episode of the week. I think that nice three-episode week went pretty well.

MATT: Yeah, hopefully.

NASIR: We’ll get the reviews tomorrow, I guess.

MATT: Yeah, and if you have your own opinions, you can write us in to or, if you have something good to say, you can leave us a positive review on iTunes.

NASIR: All right, very good. I appreciate you guys listening. I hope to hear your questions soon!

MATT: Yeah, and keep it sound and keep it smart.


The Podcast Where Nasir Pasha and Matt Staub cover business in the news with their legal twist and answer business legal questions that you the listener can send it to

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Legally Sound Smart Business

A business podcast with a legal twist

Legally Sound Smart Business is a podcast by Pasha Law PC covering different topics in business advice and news with a legal twist with attorneys Nasir Pasha and Matt Staub.
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Latest Episodes

November 21, 2023

In this episode, Nasir Pasha and Matt Staub explore the legal implications of Artificial Intelligence in the business world. They delve into the most talked-about issue of 2023: AI and its impact on the legal landscape. Although AI isn’t necessarily a new topic, it has many unanswered questions in the legal world. Nasir and Matt…

July 12, 2023

In this episode, Attorney Nasir Pasha and Attorney Matt Staub delve deep into the complexities of mass layoffs and offer valuable insights, real-life examples, and practical advice to employers grappling with the aftermath of such challenging situations. Nasir and Matt emphasize the critical importance of effective communication when executing mass layoffs. They stress the need…

January 9, 2023

As the COVID-19 pandemic swept across the globe, businesses scrambled to adapt to the new reality it presented. In this blog post, we dive into the case of Goldman Sachs, a financial services giant, to examine their response to the crisis and the lessons other businesses can learn from their return-to-office strategy. From prioritizing employee…

October 28, 2022

Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Finally, my two favorite worlds have collided – both the law and the chess – right here at Memorial Park in Houston, Texas. Windy day. We have some background noise – ambient noise. What are the two worlds that collided? Well, Hans Neimann has sued Magnus Carlsen for defamation in one…

September 26, 2022

Through a five-round championship bout, Matt travels to Texas from California to determine which state is better for business. Will it be a knockout with a clear winner or will it go to the scorecards?

July 7, 2022

Whether you are buying or selling a business, the transaction goes through the same steps. However, they are viewed from different perspectives. Sellers may not want to fully disclose all the blind spots while Buyers will want otherwise. Nasir and Matt battle it out in this Buyer vs. Seller to determine who has the advantage!…

May 12, 2022

When it comes to Restrictive Covenants, employers are fighting to keep their company safe while employees may use them to their advantage. Keep listening to find out if the Employer or the Employee wins this battle. Round 1: Trade Secrets A company’s trade secrets encompass a whole range of information and are one of the…

February 14, 2022

The Supreme Court rejected the nation’s vaccine mandate. Businesses with 100 or more employees are NOT required to have their employees vaccinated or go through weekly testings. However, this policy remains in effect for health care facilities. In this episode of Legally Sound | Smart Business, the team sat down to discuss their thoughts on this ruling.

December 1, 2021

In this episode of Legally Sound | Smart Business by Pasha Law PC, Nasir and Matt cover the Business of Healthcare. There is more to the healthcare industry than just doctors and nurses. Many Americans have health insurance to cover their yearly needs, but most Americans are not aware of what really goes on behind…

October 12, 2021

In our latest episode, Nasir and Matt are covering the legal issues on Social Media. The average person spends most of their day on social media, whether they are scrolling for hours or publishing their own content. However, just because you publish your own content on Instagram does not equate to you owning that image….

September 28, 2021

What is a Non-Disclosure Agreement, and when do I need one? In this episode, Nasir and Matt shares why you need to use Non-Disclosure Agreements, basic facts about NDA’s, and discuss about the infamous Jenner-Woods story. Having the right Non-Disclosure Agreement in place not only protects you and your business, but it also makes the…

June 16, 2021

Covered in this episode of Legally Sound Smart Business are some typical business mistakes blunders small businesses often make and how to avoid them. Blunder #1: Copying and pasting agreements It may sound like a good idea at the time, but this blunder comes with hidden pitfalls. Having an attorney draft terms that are specific…

February 4, 2021

How you terminate an employee can make the difference between a graceful transition to avoidable negative outcomes like a dramatic exit or even a lawsuit. We gathered a panel of experts and asked them – is there a “right way” to fire an employee? We would like to thank our guests for this episode: Amr…

December 2, 2020

The COVID-19 pandemic has turned nearly every aspect of life on its head, and that certainly holds true for the business world. In this episode, Matt and Nasir explain how the early days of the pandemic felt like the Wild West and how the shifting legal playing field left a lot open to interpretation and…

November 16, 2020

After plenty of ups and downs, our buyer has finally closed on the purchase of their business. While we’re marking this down in the ‘wins’ column, it never hurts to review the game tape. In this final episode, our hosts, Matt Staub and Nasir Pasha, return to the deal almost a year later to reflect…

September 15, 2020

The ink is drying on the signature line and things are looking great for our buyer. After so much hard work, the finish line is in sight and the cheering within ear shot.   Though the landlord is still serving friction, things seem safe to move forward and for now, our buyer will be keeping…

July 31, 2020

Though things are coming along well, the journey would not be interesting if it was purely smooth sailing. After our buyer opens escrow, they are forced to push the closing date back when suddenly a letter from an attorney was received claiming the business, we are buying has a trade mark on the name!  Now…

June 12, 2020

With frustration at an all-time high and professionalism at an all-time low, our friend the Buyer has “had it” with the Seller and quite frankly their lack of knowledge. At present our Buyer is rightfully concerned that the latest misstep from our loose-lipped Seller will threaten not only the entire operation of the businesses but…

May 11, 2020

As we go deeper into the buying process, we start to uncover more challenges from our seller and encounter some of the wrenches they are tossing our way. When we last left off in episode three our team was knee deep in due diligence for our buyer, had already penned and signed the Letter of…

April 4, 2020

One word–interloper! When a new mysterious broker enters the transaction and starts to kick up dust, Nasir and Matt take the reins. The seller signed off on the letter of intent (see episode 2), yet this “business broker” serves only friction and challenges by refusing to send financials, whilst demanding more of a firm commitment…

April 4, 2020

Just as most stories and deals start out, everyone is optimistic, idealistic and full of hope for clear skies. It’s a perfect outlook with a perfect setup for the ups and downs yet to come. Peek further behind the curtain and into the first steps of buying a business: the letter of intent. After the…

April 4, 2020

When a savvy buyer hears opportunity knocking to purchase a prime positioned business, she decides not to go it alone and taps in the professionals to help navigate what could potentially be a fruitful acquisition. “Behind the Buy” is a truly rare and exclusive peak into the actual process, dangers, pitfalls and achievements, that can…

August 7, 2019

GrubHub is subject to two “matters of controversy” that have likely become common knowledge to business owners: “fake” orders and unfriendly microsites.

May 28, 2019

In this podcast episode, Matt and Nasir breakdown the legal issues of the subscription industry’s business on the internet. Resources A good 50-state survey for data breach notifications as of July 2018. California Auto-Renewal Law (July 2018) Privacy Policies Law by State Why Users of Ashley Madison May Not Sue for Data Breach [e210] Ultimate…

March 12, 2019

In recording this episode’s topic on the business buying process, Matt’s metaphor, in comparing the process to getting married probably went too far, but they do resemble one another. Listen to the episode for legal advice on buying a business.

December 3, 2018

Nasir and Matt return to discuss the different options available to companies looking to raise funds through general solicitation and crowdfunding. They discuss the rules associated with the various offerings under SEC regulations and state laws, as well as more informal arrangements. The two also discuss the intriguing story about a couple who raised over…

July 24, 2018

Flight Sim Labs, a software add-on creator for flight simulators, stepped into a PR disaster and possibly some substantial legal issues when it allegedly included a Trojan horse of sorts as malware to combat pirating of its $100 Airbus A320 software. The hidden test.exe file triggered anti-virus software for good reason as it was actually…

April 17, 2018

Attorneys Matt Staub and Nasir Pasha examine Mark Zuckerberg’s congressional hearings about the state of Facebook. The two also discuss Cambridge Analytica and the series of events that led to the congressional hearings, the former and current versions of Facebook’s Terms of Service, and how businesses should be handling data privacy. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR:…

March 10, 2018

The Trump presidency has led to a major increase in ICE immigration enforcement. It’s critical for business owners to both comply with and know their rights when it comes to an ICE audit or raid. Nasir, Matt, and Pasha Law attorney Karen McConville discuss how businesses can prepare for potential ICE action and how to…

February 5, 2018

New years always bring new laws. Effective January 1, 2018, California has made general contractors jointly liable for the unpaid wages, fringe benefits, and other benefit payments of a subcontractor. Nasir and Matt discuss who the new law applies to and how this affects all tiers in the general contractor-subcontractor relationship. Click here to learn…

January 2, 2018

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December 7, 2017

In recent months explosive amounts of high profile allegations of sexual harassment, assault, and varying acts of inappropriate behavior have transcended every sector of our professional world. With a deluge from Hollywood and politics, and the private workforce, accusations have inundated our feeds and mass media. This harassment watershed has not only been felt within…

November 16, 2017

If you are not familiar with the EB-5 program started in 1990 to give green cards to certain qualified investors in the United States, then you may not have been alone a few years ago. Currently, the EB-5 program has since exploded since its inception and now hits its quotas consistently each year. The program…

October 10, 2017

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August 24, 2017

Nasir and Matt suit up to talk about everything pertaining to employee dress codes. They discuss the Federal laws that govern many rules for employers, as well as state specific nuances in California and other states. The two also emphasize the difficulty in identifyingreligious expression in dress and appearance, how gender-related dress codes have evolved…

June 28, 2017

Nasir and Matt discuss the life cycle of a negative online review. They talk about how businesses should properly respond, how to determine if the review is defamatory, the options available to seek removal of the review, how to identify anonymous reviewers, whether businesses can require clients to agree not to write negative reviews, and…

June 7, 2017

On this episode of the Ultimate Legal Breakdown, Nasir and Mattbreak down social media marketing withguests Tyler Sickmeyer and Kyle Weberof Fidelitas Development. They first discuss contests and promotionsand talk about where social media promotions can go wrong,when businesses are actually running an illegal lottery, and the importance of a soundterms and conditions. Next, they…

April 3, 2017

On this episode of the Ultimate Legal Breakdown, Nasir and Matt go in depth with the subscription box business. They discuss where subscription box companies have gone wrong(4:30), the importance of a specifically tailored terms and conditions(6:30), how to structure return policies (11:45), product liability concerns (14:45),the offensive and defensive side of intellectual property (19:00),…

February 1, 2017

Nasir and Matt discuss the suit against Apple that resultedfrom a car crashed caused by the use of FaceTime while driving. They also discuss howforeseeable use of apps can increase liability for companies. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Hi and welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business! I’m Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I’m Matt Staub. Two attorneys…

January 5, 2017

The guys kick in the new year by first discussing Cinnabon’s portrayal of Carrie Fisher as Princess Leia soon after her death, as well as other gaffes involving Prince and David Bowie. They alsotalk about right of publicity claims companies could be held liable for based on using someone’s name or likeness for commercial gain.

December 22, 2016

Nasir and Matt discuss the recent incidentat a Victoria’s Secret store where the store manager kicked out all black women after one black woman was caught shoplifting. They then each present dueling steps businesses should take when employees are accused of harassment.

December 8, 2016

Nasir and Matt return to talk about the different types of clients that may have outstanding invoices and how businesses can convert unpaid bills to getting paid.

November 10, 2016

After a long break, Nasir and Matt are back to discuss a Milwaukee frozen custard stand that is now revising it’s English only policy for employees. The guys also discuss how similar policies could be grounds for discrimination and what employers can do to revise their policies.

October 6, 2016

The guys discuss the new California law that allows actors to request the removal of their date of birth and birthdays on their IMDB page and why they think the law won’t last. They also discuss how age discrimination claims arise for business owner.

September 29, 2016

Nasir and Matt discuss the racial discrimination claims surroundingAirbnb and how it’s handled the situation. They also discuss some practical tips for businesses experiencing similar issues.

September 8, 2016

Nasir and Matt discuss whyAmazon seller accounts are getting suspended and banned without notice and how business owners can rectify this situation through a Corrective Action Plan.

August 25, 2016

Nasir and Matt talk about the accusations surroundingfashion giant Zararipping off the designs of independent artists like Tuesday Bassen and howsmaller companies can battle the industry giants.

August 18, 2016

Nasir and Matt discuss Brave Software’s ad replacing technology that has caught the eye of almost every national newspaper and has a potential copyright infringement claim looming. They also welcome digital marketing expert Matt Michaelree to speak on the specifics of what Brave is attempting to do and whether it has the answers moving forward.

July 28, 2016

Nasir and Matt discuss the sexual harassment lawsuit filed by Gretchen Carlson against Fox CEO Roger Ailes. They also talk aboutthe importance of sexual harassment training and properly handling such allegations in the office.

July 15, 2016

Nasir and Matt talk about the changes at Starbucks that have led to many disgruntled employees and customers.

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